Dining across the divide: ‘Some of his colleagues have huge pensions. I wondered if he was just jealous’
Viral, 37, Walsall
Occupation Dentist, mostly private
Voting record In 2019, Viral spoiled his ballot. “No one was worth my vote.” Previously he has voted Lib Dem
Amuse bouche Viral lived and studied in Prague for four years. “It was a great experience. I’d do it again in a heartbeat”
Paul, 61, Oxford
Occupation Professor in a university department of social policy
Voting record Always Labour in general elections, Green in local ones. Describes himself as an “old-school socialist”
Amuse bouche Has run marathons in seven countries. “What was I thinking? I don’t do that any more. Stupid idea”
For starters
Viral I was expecting someone younger, more of a hipster; he looked like a senior executive, a man who had done well.
Paul I don’t know if that’s a compliment or not. It’s the first time I’ve worn a jacket in about 100 years – I’d been doing a PhD exam earlier in the day.
Viral We talked about our reasons for doing Dining across the divide. The older you get, the harder it is to meet people outside your social circle.
Paul He went to a competitive grammar school, and has done really well. I went to a comprehensive, and was the first in my family to go to university.
It was a beautiful Italian restaurant in the jewellery quarter of Birmingham, full of Christmas parties; there was a nice atmosphere. We both had steaks, which I hadn’t had in about 10 years.
The big beef
Viral There are so many things wrong with colonialism, with the British empire. But the time to apologise is over – you have to move on. We can be too fixated with the past, instead of using that energy to move forward. There are a lot of bad things in history, but we should learn and move on, instead of going over and over how bad it was.
Paul We should apologise because of the appalling behaviour of this country. If we were more apologetic, honest and decent, we would enhance our reputation and the trust placed in us – though I’m not sure our government has much interest in those values.
Viral My family are double immigrants. They went from India to east Africa to the UK; they lived under British rule for a while. In India, we are not high caste, so they were limited in what they could do. But it is not so limiting if you move – that’s the migrant story. We did OK out of it; my parents got a good education.
Paul I wondered how that squared with the many millions who were either disadvantaged or killed. I think it’s morally egregious to say it’s somehow balanced because of the small number who may have benefited. I guess we as a country have had significant benefit, too, but at enormous cost.
Sharing plate
Viral We agreed on universal basic income, but we came at it from different angles – he said it’s the right thing to do; I said you have to give people a chance to take a risk.
Paul His reasoning is that it will allow people to take entrepreneurial risk. For me, it’s more about security, Maslow’s “hierarchy of needs”.
For afters
Viral Some of my older NHS colleagues have huge pensions. They can withdraw a quarter of their pot, and I’ve heard that the 25% they take out can be a million quid. Fair play, they were in the right place at the right time, but how are we going to pay for it?
Paul I wonder if he wasn’t just jealous. Academic pensions have been completely mismanaged over the last 20 years; it’s a mess. It’s not as bad for my generation as it is for new entrants, and I feel terribly sorry for them.
Viral If you’re doing well, you don’t need a state pension, and it could be diverted into something that would bring the nation forward – like free university education.
Paul I think state pensions have to be for everyone. Having agreed with the nation that that is what you get after paying in for a lifetime, changing things would make trust disappear.
Takeaways
Viral There’s no way Paul and I would have met if it wasn’t for this. You need to spend time with people who are outside your social circle, whose views you maybe don’t share, but you can talk amicably with. And it was a laugh.
Paul We swapped numbers so we can have a chat about the article when it comes out. I said, “I’ll airdrop you my number,” but he was like my mother dealing with his phone. I felt very empowered – it doesn’t happen often. It was great, I learned a lot, and what a nice man.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
• Paul and Viral ate at Cucina Rustica in Birmingham.
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