Robert Pattinson: "George Clooney Was the Best-Smelling Batman"
Francis Kurkdjian is one of the world’s most successful perfumers.
In 1995, he created Le Male for Jean Paul Gaultier, at one-point the best-selling men’s fragrance in Europe. In 2009, he founded his own luxury fragrance house, Maison Francis Kurkdjian, now part of LVMH. In 2021 Kurkdjian was appointed the artistic director of Christian Dior Parfums.
Robert Pattinson is among the world’s most versatile and respected actors. His films include The Twilight Saga (2008-2012); Good Time (2017); The Lighthouse(2019) and The Batman (2022).
He has been the face of Dior Homme fragrance since 2012. The following year’s campaign for the brand, featuring Pattinson and a model in a New York bedroom, was applauded for its cinematic stylishness. (In 2016 Pattinson became a global ambassador for Dior Homme fashion).
For the launch of a new Dior Homme Parfum, I spoke with Francis Kurkdjian and Robert Pattinson about scent, films, and what goes into making a hit fragrance.
Esquire: Hello Robert. Who is the character you play in the new promotional film for Dior Homme Parfum?
Robert Pattinson: I guess it’s a continuation from the first campaign in 2013. The original character was someone who’s really listless. There’s a kind of aggressive longing. Of not really fitting in anywhere. [The team] were drawing from archetypal characters: James Dean and Marlon Brando. My character wants to experience everything. He’s never quite at home. He’s trying to define himself in quite a passionate way. And I think as the campaigns have progressed he’s become more romantic and sensual.
Your job is to sell a sense (smell) by creating a feeling and an atmosphere within a commercial. That’s quite a strange gig. Does the scent inform that?
Robert Pattinson: I mean, I’m absolutely atrocious. I’ve realised over the last few hours how bad I am about talking about scent at all [we are speaking at the end of the day, during which Pattinson and Kurkdjian have been doing multiple interviews]. I do have the ability to turn my sense of smell on and off, though – which I find quite a useful skill. It’s interesting to see how Francis approaches his work. The scent was developed a long time before any of the campaign came around. So, yeah, I guess it’s all just really a response to Francis’s work.
What was the idea for the new fragrance then, Francis?
Francis Kurkdjian: I wanted to infuse it with modern masculinity. Dior Homme is a brand that plays on the edge of masculinity. Iris [in the new scent] is known as a feminine flower – very soft, powdery – so there was something that was not explored yet. When I took over at Dior, I knew I would do something with Dior Homme, to make it more contemporary. Make it not as classic and bring a bit of irreverence. That’s how Kim [Jones, creative director of Dior Homme] definiens masculinity. He’s able to blend classicism and modernity, tradition and something contemporary. “Respect traditions and dare to be bold,” – that is a quote from Christian Dior. This is back to the 1940s and 50s. We must not forget that this is relevant today. My task is to talk about the modern man. I knew Robert [would be promoting the fragrance]. I saw the script a little bit. Dior Homme is a very specific man. Even with the perfume world, compared to other brands, because it’s on the edge of fragile and strong. Powerful and charismatic. That’s hard to describe. But the job has that duality.
How tricky was this one to make?
Francis Kurkdjian: It wasn’t tricky. I’m sorry to say that! I’m old – I know that I look very young – and now I’m an experienced perfumer. When you have a clear idea, it’s easy. If you’re a ballet dancer, you rely on your technique. The most difficult part of my job is to be connected to a time. When I started 30 years ago, I was young, so I was connected with that time. But I didn’t have the technique to express it, because I wasn’t skilled enough. Today, I have long hours of technique behind me. So, to go from the concept to the real product is kind of easy. What is harder for me is to find a relevant idea or to create a new story that hasn’t been said yet.
Robert, what did you mean when you said had the ability to turn your sense of smell on and off?
Robert Pattinson: [Starts laughing, perhaps at being asked to talk about something as esoteric as smell one more time] Even if I give the best answers, there’s no good answers.
Come on, you can do this.
Robert Pattinson: It’s strange. I just noticed it in the last job I was doing. Because for some reason people kept apologising for how they smelled. And I just realised that I couldn’t smell anything at all. Then I realised that when I’m working, I just don't have any sense of those moments…. I’m almost completely inside my own body. I’m not aware of anything other than people's facial expressions. I don't know. It’s a strange ability to have!
What you’re saying is that you’re such a terrific actor, you’re just completely in the moment at all times.
Robert Pattinson: [Mock seriously] Yes. It’s just extreme focus. Someone could just do the worst fart around me and I just wouldn’t even know.
What smells remind you of childhood?
Robert Pattinson: Well, you’re talking to someone from London [he was born in Barnes]. And there’s a very particular smell of London. Landing in Gatwick Airport – I think, because whenever I went on vacation when I was a kid, we always seemed to go from Gatwick – and landing there has a very, very, very potent smell to me. So that always reminds me of a childhood. I think that’s extremely nostalgic.
Gatwick smells better than Heathrow?
Robert Pattinson: Yes, not so much Heathrow. That just feels more “regular”. I guess if you’re going on holiday Spain, or whatever, you’re always going to go from Gatwick. So, I very much associate that Gatwick Airport smell with childhood. There’s also something particular about going to Dorset. Dorset beaches always bring it back to childhood.
Are there scents you associate with characters you’ve played?
Robert Pattinson: Definitely the scent of the cowl, with Batman – very much.
What does that smell of?
Robert Pattinson: Well, it’s leather. But it’s also a combination – because you’re sealed in a leather mask, but you're also extremely anxious all the time. And leather is porous, so it really takes on an emotional scent. When I did the audition for Batman I had to try on all the different cowls [from actors who’d played the role]. Even from 20 years ago, they all still had the scent of each individual actor. It’s kind of strange.
Who smelt the best?
Robert Pattinson: I think probably Clooney smelt the best.
Of course he did. What you described sounds like the smell of fear. It sounds horrible.
Robert Pattinson: Yeah. [Laughs] The smell of fear has the strongest emotional resonance!
What about Thomas Howard, the 19th Century lighthouse keeper, in The Lighthouse?
Robert Pattinson: I mean, that's another reason why I can turn of my scent! That movie was so awful smelling that it [the smells] really broke through. There were so many scenes [that smelt appalling]. Because we had to get the seagulls to circle the set all the time. So, there was buckets of rotting fish everywhere, all over the entire set. Just so there’d be hundreds of seagulls. And that is quite a wake-up call. It’s like “G’ah! Oh, now I am at work”. I have a lot of respect for fisherman [after that].
Connie Nikas, the small-time crook in Good Time?
Robert Pattinson: [immediately] Oh, that’s some weird mix of blood and a vape.
Will Batman smell differently in The Batman: Part II?
Robert Pattinson: I hope so!
Can you give us a word to describe it at this point?
Robert Pattinson: I haven’t seen anything yet, so I have no idea. But I think maybe… a little more iris?
A few fragrance commercials become as famous as the product they’re selling. What’s the key to that?
Robert Pattinson: I don’t think you can predict anything. Even if you’re having a good time on the set… I’ve done plenty [of commercials] when you can have the best time, and you think it’s going to translate into something wonderful, and it just doesn’t. It doesn’t even look like you were having a good time. It’s a very strange alchemy. I remember the first [Dior Homme fragrance] ad we did with [director] Romain Gavras. We did the whole thing to an A$AP Rocky song – at the time A$AP Rocky wasn’t massive. We did this entire ad with this song playing constantly in the background. The attitude we were embodying was more like hip hop. And then they changed it Led Zeppelin [“Whole Lotta Love”] at the end. And it feels so natural now with that Led Zeppelin song, even though it gives it an entirely different vibe. So, you just never know. You’re just shooting in the dark and hoping,
Francis, what about you? Sometimes you must spend ages making a scent, and then it’s presented to the world in a way you wouldn’t have predicted.
Francis Kurkdjian: Yes, you never know. But it’s not about what I think. It’s about what the audience feels, and will think. Also it depends on who you are competing against. Because sometimes you think that you’re relevant, you think that you surfing on a wave – and all of a sudden you have a competitor that goes “zoom!” [and is way more successful]. So, you can be very happy the night before [the launch]. And then you release your perfume, and the campaign. It’s happened to me that I was not the game changer! Over the past 35 years, I’ve had some flops. I made some not good ones, I have to say. I launched a perfume the day before 9/11, for example. In that last moment, something can happen… or you can screw up. But I do believe that’s the beauty of it. It means there are no recipes. One day [if we come to reply on] artificial intelligence [to create hit scents] it won’t work. Because what makes this beautiful is the uncertainty of things.
Just like the movie industry, Robert.
Robert Pattinson: Trying to predict what a market is going to be like years in the future… it’s almost ridiculous. It’s difficult to even know if you will still like what you're making two years in the future, let alone anyone else.
How can we learn to appreciate scent better?
Robert Pattinson: Do some research with Frances. Watch some interviews!
Francis Kurkdjian: Trust yourself, truly. There are no mistakes. You can wear a suit because you think it’s sexy or you think it’s trendy. You can wear a pair of shoes because they look good. And your feet can hurt. But you can't wear a perfume you don’t like. With perfume, there is something which is deep from your gut. You can’t mistake what you like, because your mind and your body will tell you right away, that you’re going to be sick! So, trust yourself. We try too often to put rules in and say, “Oh, this is right, this is chic. This is elegant”. But that’s nonsense. It’s bullshit, because if you can’t convince someone to wear something they don’t like. It's not like fashion, that’s for sure.
Dior Homme Parfum, from £103 for 50ml, dior.com
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