Dining across the divide: ‘The UK rioters are career thugs, but I do feel some sympathy’

Robert, 44, Bromley

Occupation Runs a brokerage firm in the City

Voting record Conservative, Ukip, Reform

Amuse bouche Spent the first seven years of his life in Botswana; has never been back, though there is a lot of African influence in his cooking

Madhu, 30, London

Occupation Digital marketing manager

Voting record Always Labour

Amuse bouche Went to seven different schools in three different countries (India, Singapore and the UK)

For starters

Madhu He came in a suit, professional looking. I was not, so that took me aback a bit. Honestly, he was really lovely. Very courteous, friendly. I was nervous; he was able to put me at ease.

Robert I thought she was lovely. Despite what we think politically, we were not too dissimilar in some ways.

Madhu We ordered a shared tasting menu; that was quite a dangerous thing. I’m from Indian descent, so I’m a family-style person but I don’t know how comfortable he was with that.

Robert So much stuff. Hummus, yoghurt, smacked cucumbers, mushrooms on a cocktail stick, a baked broccoli, a potato gratin sort of thing. We couldn’t finish it.

The big beef

Robert I think the media and the policing of the recent riots have focused very much on labelling them as rightwing extremists. I think, to some extent, they are rightwing thugs and horrible people, but I don’t remember quite as much political motivation to set up magistrates courts on weekends and jail the rioters after the Leeds riot, after Roma children were taken off their family.

Madhu He definitely did not agree with the violence of the riots, but it sounded a bit like he was blaming the prosecutions, the government – which turned it round really quickly with the sentencing – more than the rioters. He was comparing it with other protests, and I couldn’t make him understand that violent protest is different. When he mentioned “the left”, it felt like it was almost in a conspiracy tone, as if tech billionaires are funding it all.

Robert When you look at some of the people being arrested, they’ve got criminal records as long as your arm. So they’re clearly career thugs in a way, but some sympathy comes from me in the sense that these people probably don’t have much going on in their lives, and haven’t for decades.

Madhu One thing he mentioned, which I did agree with: he connected the riots to the impact of energy prices on the lowest income households. I do think we have let down the poorest people in this country. After a decade and a half of austerity, and Covid, and the energy crisis, it’s cornered people into a position where they become violent.

Sharing plate

Related: Dining across the divide: ‘He had a “why do you care?” sort of attitude’

Madhu I was trying to make him understand that the numbers coming into the country have gone up because of legal migration, students, jobs in healthcare. He kept bringing it back to asylum seekers, and how they were put up in Holiday Inns. I accepted that it’s not a perfect system. He thought it was a much bigger problem than I think it is.

Robert The amount of migrants we’ve seen in the last year seems extremely high. I don’t think our views on legal migration differed, but I’ve got little sympathy for people who claim there’s no legal way into the UK. Those who come in illegally want to take a short cut in life and not do the hard work.

Madhu He did listen. When he said, “I don’t think we can get a good estimation of illegal migration” and I said, “At least we can get a good estimation of the people who’ve tried to apply for asylum,” he said, “Yes, that’s fair.” At no point did I feel that he was being confrontational. I think he wanted to hear my point of view.

For afters

Robert Just Stop Oil was initially financed by a rich foreigner, and there are a lot of education and activist groups funded by George Soros. I think there is an element of people using their money to create change.

Madhu He thinks a lot of legal cases are brought by leftwing billionaires. I don’t know if he meant it as a joke, but it sounded like something he’d read on an internet forum rather than a proper news source.

Takeaways

Madhu He is very grounded, and a practical person, and would listen to the voice of reason.

Robert She’s almost exactly like most of the people in my social circle.

Additional reporting: Kitty Drake

• Madhu and Robert ate at Bubala, London.

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