How to Buy a Second-Hand Watch: An Expert Guide to Tricks & Good Deals
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On Tuesday morning Marc Montagne started a new job at Audemars Piguet.
The role he stepped into was new, too – head of “Certified Pre-Owned”, or CPO, at the company.
It’s a position that is emblematic of a shift in the watch industry.
Until recently, there were two main ways to buy a watch.
One was to buy new from the brand itself, or from one of its approved retailers.
The other was to buy second-hand, from eBay, say, or a vintage watch shop.
Both of these options have downsides.
The first comes with high costs, limited stock and waiting lists.
The second comes with the possibility of dodgy sellers, and that watches had been repaired with aftermarket parts, or otherwise tinkered with.
In 2022, Rolex turned its customers on to a third way.
Rolex would take back its own “pre-loved” watches, authenticate them, refurbish them, slap a warranty on them and sell them to customers as CPO – Certified Pre-Owned.
This had several benefits for customers.
It was now easier to find the watch you wanted (so long as it wasn’t a Daytona), you didn't have to join a years-long waiting list and suck up to your local retailer, and you still got the warm feeling of buying a Rolex from actual Rolex.
The downside was that Rolex, being Rolex, charged a hefty premium. Typically, about 30 per cent more than another second-hand dealer would charge.
This also had several benefits for Rolex.
The company could now extend its control into the secondary market by deciding how its watches were sold and priced. It could mitigate damage to its brand integrity by reducing fakes and badly looked-after watches. And it could grab a slice of the revenue from the all the money sloshing around in the preowned market, a sector that’s been experiencing explosive growth.
This week, it was announced Rolex was opening its first ever direct store in China – featuring “officially authorised pre-owned Rolexes” and offering “personalised experiences”, something believed to be a response to the country’s decelerating economic growth.
Many other luxury brands now also offer some form of CPO through retailers, among them Omega, Breitling and Tag Heuer.
Even the extreme high-end independent brands, watchmakers like FP Journe and MB&F, have come in on the idea.
A couple of months back we wrote about Ninety, the London boutique that holds the exclusive license to repair and resell eye-wateringly pricey second-hand Richard Mille watches.
With rising pre-owned watch specialists like Subdial and auction houses like Loupe This getting increasingly customer-focused and data-savvy, you can understand why watch brands have been getting a bit antsy about missing out on the lucrative pre-loved dollar.
Audemars Piguet is the latest to join the club.
In 2023, its outgoing boss François-Henry Bennahmias announced AP’s intention to get into the CPO business. Or rather, his intentions were leaked following a speech he gave at a recruitment conference in Paris.
Now AP has appointed Marc Montagne to run that business.
It could scarcely have found someone with a more appropriate CV.
Montagne has held positions at both Jaeger-LeCoultre and Vacheron Constantin, where he was involved in overseeing programmes that refurbished off-catalogue vintage models from the vaults, and sold them on to collectors.
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This aspect may be of particular interest to AP, whose fortunes largely rest on one watch, its 52-year-old Royal Oak, but which has recently been dipping into its archives to revive forgotten models from the 1940s and 1960s.
Montagne is a vintage watch and auction fiend, something he has turned into a successful side-hustle.
If you fancy entering the Montagne-Verse, there are options.
You can buy his book Invest In Watches: The Art of Watch Collecting. You can listen to his horological podcast Répétition Minute (providing you can understand French). Or you can enrol in his online course Bid & Win: How To Buy A Watch At Auctions.
He also founded WatchAuctionHQ, the watch auction database that went on to be acquired by EveryWatch, the world's largest watch database.
This guy knows his stuff!
Despite it being the final day of his non-compete clause from Vacheron Constantin, and starting a big new job the next morning, when I spoke to Montagne on Monday he chatted away happily about his faith in CPO, how the second-hand watch market will soon dwarf the new and how he came to pick up very nice gold Patek Phillip watch at auction for a snip.
Hello Marc. What appeals to you about Certified Pre-Owned?
It touches so many different things. It could just be certifying the watches like Rolex is doing. Or you can be a concierge, and help customers locate some pieces they’re having trouble finding, like MB&F is doing [you may request a particular model from the brand, and they will try and track it down]. There’s also the work that can be done with heritage. It’s a fantastic vehicle to tell stories about watches from the past, that aren’t in production anymore. Also, the prices can be more attractive.
Give us an example.
Okay, I bought myself an Audemars Piguet Cobra [sparkly retro dress watch produced from the early 1970s into the 1990s], a vintage piece from the 1980s, which I got at auction in the US. Even with the taxes, hammer fees, flying it back from the US to Switzerland, I still bought it for a fifth of what the most affordable full gold AP watch in the current catalogue is. Without even mentioning the fact that it has diamond indexes and so is rarer, by definition. So, CPO can also be a fantastic entry point to the brand.
Why is all the CPO activity happening now?
When I started my career 11 years ago, second-hand was perceived negatively. Just the idea that people would be selling their watches... why would you ever sell a watch? A watch is supposed to be eternal! Also, the idea of flipping watches for profit was not really considered back then. But people have always been selling and buying and trading watches. It was almost unbelievable that brands would be blind to this side of the market. The second-hand market happens whether brands want it or not. You can’t completely dismiss that side of the business.
People used to think that buying second-hand meant you couldn’t afford the new version. There was a maybe a bit of stigma attached to wearing "someone else's old watch".
Yeah, 100 per cent. China was the most adverse to second-hand for the reasons you described. Over the last two or three years you can see that changing. There’s also the [widespread understanding, though blockbuster auction results] that some watches are worth more on the secondary market than the retail price. So, the idea of “Oh you can’t afford new?” is completely dismissed. It’s not relevant anymore. And there’s the elements around circularity and sustainability. Those topics are getting more and more traction.
Do watch buyers really care about sustainability?
I don’t think it is something that drives purchases, to be honest. It’s just something that adds up and makes you feel good about a watch. I don’t think people are buying a vintage watch thinking they’re saving the planet.
When he first spoke about CPO, Audemars Piguet’s outgoing boss, François-Henry Bennahmias, said the second-hand market would soon come to overtake the new.
It’s obvious. Simply by the fact that there’s a year’s worth of production thrown in the secondary market. For any brand there’s more watches in circulation for the secondary market than they’re producing each year. Rolex produces more than a million watches every year. So it's there in volume. Maybe in terms of transaction values it’s not there, yet. But it’s just a matter a time.
Rolex charges around 30 per cent more to certify one of its own watches. Is it worth it?
Think of the example of the car industry. If you have a Porsche car and are able to give the full traceability – "this was serviced here and here…" Who else but the brand can really certify everything? Let’s say I’m an expert: I open the case, I look at the movement, everything looks legit to me. But only the brand will know that a movement serial number matches a case serial number.
I appreciate it depends on a whole bunch of factors, but is there a ballpark figure for the saving on CPO vs new?
It completely depends. Some you won’t be saving, some you’ll be paying more. In the case of the Cobra, they’re not produced anymore, so there is no retail price. You can only compare with the equivalent today, a full gold watch with diamonds. Also: the whole auction market fluctuates so much.
AP is a big hitter. Rolex is a big hitter. Will others follow them into CPO? Patek Philippe, for example.
Yes, 100 per cent. Because when you look at Rolex and AP they cover two sides of the segment, and they cover it well. Rolex in terms of value, the fantastic quality and the iconic brand. And AP covers the high-end segment, and the more niche. Once you have those two names I can only assume it’s a matter of time before most of the other brands jump in. And it’s already happening, frankly. Look at Richard Mille, FP Journe and MB&F. When I was at Vacheron I launched an online programme called Les Collectionneurs, which was a small collection of watches, bought, restored and placed back on the market. I also did things like launch a collection of [restored] Vacheron watches for Mr Porter’s 10th anniversary. I did a selection of 10 pieces that was then sold as a special campaign.
You did something similar at Jager-LeCoultre, right?
Jager-LeCoultre has a similar one called The Collectables. And certainly, there’s other brands that are offering similar programmes. And when you have [the luxury group] Richemont buying [pre-owned retailer] Watchfinder it shows how second-hand is being taken seriously.
What did you learn from your customers at Vacheron?
You mentioned market price versus CPO price, which can be set at a premium. It was definitely the case at Vacheron. But if the brand restores it, they restore it at a level that only the brand can do. Let’s say Vacheron restores a pocket watch from the 1930s. Only the brand will have the exact components from the 1930s. And if they don’t, they have the tools from that period that will allow them to rebuild the components exactly. So of course this is learning at the highest level, and it comes at a price. And I have seen that customers are extremely willing and happy to pay for quality, even if it means they’re paying a bit above what a similar reference would go for. Knowing that it is restored, certified, comes with a warranty, etcetera, etcetera. Maybe not everyone does. Some people might be looking to get the best deal possible.
You also get a bit more history and romance with a vintage watch.
Yes. Customers really crave those vintage stories. Those watches come with something that modern watches don’t have yet. In 20 years’ time they might get it. But there’s something really special that goes with holding a vintage chronograph from the 1940s. The techniques that were employed to make the dial, to make the pushers, the case, the hands, etcetera, are not used anymore. Collectors respond extremely well to these sentiments.
What do you think CPO will look like in your new role at Audemars Piguet?
This is my personal opinion and I cannot speak for AP yet, but perhaps the CPO will allow the brand to shine the light on some less-known references. I gave you the example of the Cobra. It also echoes a bit what AP is doing with their [Re]Master line. They have launched two models over the past two or three years, one really recently. They’re going back into their heritage department and their museum and finding pieces that they repurpose as modern variations of those originals. I also believe that it will be a great way to rediscover Royal Oaks that are not produced anymore. I’m thinking about two specific models. One that is nicknamed “The Owl”, a day-date Royal Oak [ref. 5572] that you don’t see these days. That design does not exist anymore. And sometimes it can be the size factor as well. If you want a perpetual calendar Royal Oak today they come in 41mm. If you go vintage you have crazy exciting pieces – really, some of the nicest watches ever produced in terms of design – in 39mm. Vintage allows you to wear watches that modern product won’t necessarily offer you.
Can you talk about the auction market a little? Can people still enrol on your learning course?
Absolutely! It’s a course you can take on your own. It started with the book I wrote, Invest In Watches. It covers some of the things we’ve been discussing, and broader topics around investing in watches but from a collectors’ standpoint. But “Buy this watch for X price and sell it for Y price and make 20 per cent profit…” that’s something I’m not interested in at all. It’s more about understanding what drives the value of watches. I had people reaching out to me on Instagram and everywhere else, and [the topic of] auctions would surface regularly. So there’s a chapter in there about that. That also taps into my own collectors’ journey. When you buy a watch these days, most of [the luxury models] are on waiting lists, or you’re not able to buy them right away. So, I [personally] spend more and more time buying second-hand simply because of availability. Then I’d see friends, they’d see my new watch and say “Where did you get it from?” “Oh, from an auction”. And I would realise that they would like to participate in auctions but they don’t because they’re scared. Because they simply don’t know how it works.
Where should they start?
If you’re looking to buy a specific reference you can set up alerts from auctions all over the world to find it. You can even put alerts for a given price. Or you can set it within a price range. Then it’s understanding the different ways of bidding. When people think of auctions they think of movies when people are raising those paddles in very theatrical way. But usually it’s people in pyjamas, bidding over the phones or on the mobile app. Or simply sending an email with their maximum bid.
I had no idea about setting global alerts.
There are platforms that are aggregators for auctions. I actually built a watch auction database myself which was acquired earlier this year by a company called EveryWatch. And EveryWatch is one of those aggregators.
What else should we know?
Understanding the true cost of buying a watch at auction is important because, yes, there are fees. But it’s only like when you’re buying regular items, when there’s VAT and taxes on top. So, I explain all of that. And I share all the templates I use to communicate with watch auctions to ensure you get all the proper information. I also show auction catalogues where the pictures are horrible. You’re unable to make a proper assessment on the condition of the watch based on pictures like that.
How do you get around that?
Ask for more pictures. At the end of the day [an auction house’s] goal is get as many bidders to fight for a watch as they can, so they should always be happy to help. That’s also their job.
Do you have to be rich to take part in a watch auction?
I start the course with a lot of misconceptions around auctions that I wanted to debunk. And one of those is exactly what you’ve just said. You don’t have to be crazy rich to engage in auctions. There’s watches being sold every day at literally every price point. As we’re speaking there’s watches that being auctions for a few hundred pounds. And on average, if you take all the references, it’s 20 per cent less expensive at auction than if you would buy them at a regular dealer. Simply because those dealers are all buying watches at auctions themselves!
It’s easy to think there’s only the big houses like Christies and Sotheby’s out there.
Yes. But when you use those aggregators, you don’t really care about the auction house. You care about the listing. And whether its auction at Sotheby’s, Phillips, Antiquorum, whatever, it doesn’t really make such a big difference. Also, you discover there are auction houses all over the world that are completely unknown and are offering watches at sale every day. Of course, if you have a big, unique Audemars/ Patek/ Vacheron piece that you want to put at auction you would likely put it at Philips or Antiquorum. But there’s a lot of other watches that are equally desirable that are auctioned at smaller auction houses.
Does anyone actually attend auctions in person any more?
The majority of bidders are placing their bids remotely. Whether it happens over the phone, or over an app, and that could be the app of an auctioneer, or the app of an aggregator, over a website, by placing an absentee bid. The person that attends in person is usually attending for the show – for the excitement. Being part of the action. It’s like they’re attending a soccer game.
How do you go about finding a bargain?
If you buy a [Rolex] Day-Date vintage, they are about half what a modern Day-Date would cost in a boutique. And when you look at Rolex designs, they’re quite similar [ie: they’ve barely changed over the years]. Some would argue that the vintage ones are a bit nicer. So, you have the opportunity to buy one of the most iconic Rolexes ever made, with a design that is exactly the same as the current model, for half the price of the current model. Whereas, if you buy a buy a vintage [Rolex] Daytona, it’s the other way round. You have the same idea with Audemars Piguet, with Vacheron Constantin, with Patek. For example, the [Patek Philippe] Ellipse, which is a reference I like a lot.
That's an amazing watch.
An amazing watch, of course. So, let’s compare vintage with modern Ellipse. The vintage one you can find examples for less than 10k. I bought mine at 4k.
Wow, well done.
Thanks! The most affordable one today in the boutique would be over 30k.
Plus, there's all that vintage charm…
Of course! And then you have the size of it. The modern Ellipse is simply too large for my wrist. Also, the fact that the original Ellipse is in yellow gold with a blue dial. That configuration is not offered today. So, if you want the original you only have the option of going vintage. The final argument in favour of going vintage is that usually when you buy modern you have open case backs. The modern Ellipse doesn’t have this anyway. So I don’t see any reasonable reason to buy a modern Ellipse.
What’s your watch collection like?
Completely eclectic. It ranges from simple, time-only watches, to more complicated steel watches, full gold watches, pocket watches, vintage, modern. This is something I like about watches. You don’t need watches, so it’s only driven by passion. The analogy I always make is with cars – there are people driving cars every day that absolutely hate it. They have no other option. No one forces you to wear a watch. So, when you’re entering this world of passion, it’s not limited to one design – passion is irrational. It’s limitless.
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